suggesting that the invasion was not merely imminent or as serious as the united states was warning, zelensky now saying it is a desperate situation for ukranians. that does it for me. thank you for watching. i'll be back same time tomorrow. tiffany cross and "the cross connection" picks up our coverage of the ukranian crisis right now. >> you just described thats from conference very well. the most stark sentence he said there was this is not a did he nation, ukraine should be asking for. a lot to get to and i'll pick it up from here. good morning to you at home and welcome to "the cross connection." we start with the last ditch diplomatic efforts to avoid war in ukraine even as president biden says putin has already decided to invade. this is where we are. this morning vice president harris met with ukranian president zelensky ahead of his speech at the munich security conference where he scolded the u.n. seemingly for doing nothing to defend its own charter. zelensky appeared in hugh nick despite warnings from the u.s.

that he should not leave his country as the security situation there deteriorates. and vice president harris issued this stark warning for russia. >> let me be clear, i can say with absolute certainty if russia further invades ukraine, the united states together with our allies and partners will impose significant and unprecedented economic costs. >> meanwhile president putin today over-sawmill taker drills of russia's nuclear launch and delivery systems. biden yesterday dismissed concerns that putin would use nukes in a war with ukraine. the more immediate concern is the russian troops at ukraine's border right now. it is estimated at 190,000. that is according to the u.s. moscow has denied any plans to

invade. russia-backed separatists are evacuating civilians from the territories that they control in eastern ukraine as cease fire violations continue along the frontlines. joining me now is the host of black diplomats podcast and also senior nonresident fellow at the atlantic council's you're raise i can't center. and also errin haines, and here with me on set, correspondent peter alexander. and that is who i begin with. we just heard that interesting address by president zelensky where he was begging, and he said this is not a company nation, we should be begging for. and where do things stand and is it a good idea that he left ukraine considering that he may not have safe passage back in? >> i think you are right, this really did feel like a man whose back is to the wall. we're hearing from a president speaking before the world who clearly made the assessment that there was value in leaving his country despite those warnings

of what could happen in his absence that putin may try to exploit his absence, that there could be some sort of assault. and he obviously felt that it was necessary to address those world leaders, nancy pelosi, vice president among others in person. the vice president and zelensky met this morning for about 40 minutes where he said in the brief remarks where our colleagues were allowed in the room, he said that they were effectively asking for specific steps to stay place, that they wanted more defensive aid even in the waning moments before it appears that an attack will happen. and what he said is that the ukranian army is basically the first line of defense for all of europe. as he said moments ago, after us, who is next. and you ask a good question though about his departing there. think about this, it is only about 2 1/2 hours between kyiv and between munich. but lufthansa just announced that they will be canceling flighting begins next week into ukraine. and so we have heard from his

officials, officials in the ukraine government that he will be traveling back later today. but that is, although they don't fly over russia or belarus, that is a dangerous trip home. >> absolutely. because it doesn't take a lot for somebody to identify this plane in the sky and potentially take it out. we have no reason to believe that will happen, but that is a possibility as he left. and so let's go there on ground. what is next? it seems to be a matter of waiting to see who blinks first. tell us what the mood is there. >> well, first of all, i think welcome to kyiv. right now the mood amongst the people is a lot of anxiety, people don't know what will happen. kyiv is just a few hours north of the city you have amassed a number of russian troops at the border. so dudes can come down here in a matter of hours. but people are pretty calm and

chilled. you see in the back of me, people are walking across here and people going about their lives. they know that there is a possibility of war. but this has been an eight year drama for them and a number of ups and downs. so people are just waiting for things to happen. and i'll close out by saying that what zelensky was saying, that we are the most combat-ready army in all of europe, because we are the guardians of europe, and so if this can happen to us, it can happen to you. so you are living in a world in which you think that this has not reached your borders, and the reason it hasn't is because there is a buffer between putin and the rest of europe and why are you forsaking us. that is basically what he said in a nutshell. >> indeed he did. and i was struck by seeing vice president harris on the global stage sending that stark warning to russia. and i'm curious what you think

about what that does to her legacy at home. we're in a midterm year. to see her in this capacity certainly will have domestic impacts here. what is your take errin haines. >> absolutely. good morning, good to be with you and to discuss this tense situation and also to see you brother terrell, i hope that you are staying safe over there. so look the vice president has been the on world stage a few times in her first year or so as vice president. and what administration officials point out to me, she has been pretty well received. i mean, whether she has been smoothing over relations in france after that submarine deal or being on hand for the inauguration recently of the first woman president of honduras, she is somebody who could be her party's nominee for president down the road. so these kind of world stage moments bolster her foreign policy. and that will be important in terms of normalizing her leadership both at home and abroad. this munich security conference specifically is somebody president biden also attended

when he was vice president and her being there is another sign of the trust and partnership that he has with vice president harris. and you saw her being seen as respected and applauded on that stage when she said very forcefully, you know, that with absolute certainty if russia further invades ukraine, the united states together with our allies will impose significant and unprecedented economic costs. now, when you hear that kind of talk, it reminds me of what you saw from her as a senator grilling nominees during the trump administration and something that she has been doing for much of her life as a prosecutor. seeing how she takes on bad guys or adversaries is really part of the experience that she bring to the role of vice president and she is also in munich reinforcing the president's strong message of support and standing with america's allies. >> yeah, absolutely. we have to consider what is happening here domestically. i wondered if putin felt like, well, america is divided, i've

helped sow that divide, now might be the time to adopt this attitude. i'm curious how it will play out politically here in terms of the divide between the political parties. i want you to take a listen to tucker carlson's take on the situation in ukraine and russia. >> why do i care what is going on in the conflict between russia and ukraine? i'm serious. >> i'll tell you why -- >> why shouldn't i root for russia, which i am? >> i have to say at the end of that broadcast after his audience reacted a certain way, tucker came back and said wait, wait, i was just joking. it didn't appear that he was joking there, but he did say at the end of that broadcast that he was. but not long ago, he said this -- >> disloyal to side with russia but loyal to side with ukraine. they are both foreign countries that don't care anything about the united states. kind of strange. >> peter, i know you cover the white house. however, i think the

implications here of what happens here domestically will be challenging considering that you have this kind of talk from right wing extremists and right wing outlets like fox news. where do you anticipate republicans will fall on this issue and how about president biden navigate that while potentially getting involved in a war? >> i think people can make their own assessment of what tucker carlson said. but as you watch how it is playing out, there was a bipartisan group who joined the vice president traveling overseas for this munich security conference to try to come together. and the republican party, they are in many ways we've heard from mitch mcconnell, though not the trump wing of the party, they have supported the way this has been handled by the biden administration. they did think that there should be sanctions in advance as opposed to responding to an attack. but the bottom line is the takeaway for vladimir putin, the desire was to split up nato, to sort of expose the weaknesses that existed among those nato countries right now.

weaknesses or those differences that became more clear during the trump administration, but instead what has happened is that those countries have come closer together, at least the biden administration views it as such right now. can they hold together though in these days, does germany peel off as might be the assessment of vladimir putin, that is i think the way people will watch out the next several days play out. >> and i think here americans are not necessarily solely focused on what happens in foreign policy. oftentimes people want to know how does it impact me. terrell, i'm kick it back to you. if war does break out in ukraine, how do you anticipate that it will impact domestic politics? you have a unique position being over in kyiv but being a resident of the united states. what is your assessment of this? >> gas prices. one of the things that people don't recognize is that russia is the second largest provider of natural gas in the world. and while russia does not export

much gas to the united states at all, in fact just roughly 3% of our exports come from russia, but it is a globally traded commodity. which means if any disruption of the process of this infrastructure in this region is affected, then that will hike up gas prices. so first of all, you will see it at the pump. and when you think about the geopolitical dynamics of this, there will be a reassessment or realignment of a truth movement now because ukraine is not a part of nato, truth will not reach ukranian soil, but there will be a conversation about america's role in regards to suffering the eu member states and nato states from russia. and so there will be much larger implications than people anticipate. so in regards to the part that putin has no through in, but

starting out you will see it at the gas pump. >> and they have a lot of capabilities, russia does. errin, you know this, in 2016, rusia was laser focused on black voter, sowing discord. and russia did attack the dnc and rnc. so this will be an interesting -- as it develops, we'll see how it plays out. i want to ask you quickly about zelensky. this is a comedian turned president. i don't want to be pot kettle here. we survived four years of donald trump. but i wonder about his competency on the world stage facing something like this. your thoughts. >> listen, i think seeing the speech that he just delivered, he understands this is no laughing matter. he certainly is not making any jokes or making light of the situation in ukraine as we sit here this morning. the seriousness of this is not lost on him which i think is

maybe an important distinction between himself and our former president. the way that he is approaching it, the way that he is saying that ukraine, we are the little guy, this is not just a ukraine problem, we need help, twheed we need our allies to care about the situation happening here and to get involved because it could be us today but who knows who it could be tomorrow. >> absolutely. i take your point there. thank you so much, terrell, be safe over there. and errerrin and also thanks to peter. coming up, it looks like latitia james may get her chance to question the former guy under oath. we'll talk about that. questionr oath totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone. so it was a happy ending... i'll pick this one up. i earn 3% cash back on dining including takeout with chase freedom unlimited.

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i pursue cases based on evidence, based on facts, based on analysis of the that you. and the politics stop at my door. he will not evade us, he will not stop us from investigating and to ensuring that individuals no matter what title they hold are following the law. and i'm confident that we will win. >> the he she was referencing, mangled mussolini who has had a bad week. his accounting firm dumped him. and nags archives said he

brought classified documents to mar-a-lago. trump is taking ills like a cincinnati bengal and biggest loss was thursday when a judge ordered him and ivanka and don jr. to answer questions under oath and they have to do it in the next three weeks. meaning things could soon get a lot worse for the former grifter in chief. joining me now is one of your favorites. what is week. we know that both latitia james and the attorney general looked into whether he manipulated property values. what is the punishment for that and how likely that we'll see this corrupt-filled president face actual accountability? >> it is a major crime. it is a major financial crime. this is -- of all the things where the trump and the trump family could be in legal

jeopardy, this is probably the most serious. i think probably even more serious than the election fraud and investigation happening in georgia. you want to see my impression of don jr.? one, two, three, four! like that is how he will roll. we know that, right? >> yes. >> but here is the thing, there is nothing wrong with taking the fifth amendment. we should defend it. doesn't mean that you are guilty, just means that you don't want to talk yourself into being guilty. but latitia james is playing this game at a high level. she is not subpoenaing ivanka and don jr. because she doesn't know what is going on. she has evidence, she has documents. she understands scheme. she is inviting them into talk to help themselves. if they don't want to avail themselves of that help that is on them. if i say who drew crayon on my television, i know the answer, but i'm just trying to get the you are urchins i live with to

lessen the punishment. and here is what i think most coverage is missing, the reptilian father that is donald trump is off the charts here. you cannot tell me as a parent that you would ever be willing to put your own children in jeopardy, in serious legal jeopardy for some dirt you did. if this was my family and high kids were subpoenaed to talk to this woman, i'd be begging the court, no, let me take the weight, let me take all the responsibility. don't go after my kids. what kind of father is this that he is putting his kids in this situation some. >> i think we've long known what kind of father this is especially the way that he's spoken about ivanka over the years.

you brought up that they could plead the fifth. but take a listen to what donald trump said about that. >> when you have your staff taking the fifth amendment, taking the fifth, so that they are not prosecuted. fifth amendment, fifth amendment, fifth amendment. horrible. horrible. her staffers taking the fifth amendment. how about that? five people taking the fifth amendment like you see on the mob, right? you see the mob takes the fifth. if you are innocent, why are you taking the fifth amendment? >> so it is really interesting that he, you know, constantly contradicts himself but i don't think that his base, you know, ever cares to hold him accountable for when he does that. i know that latitia james is not investigating what happened here in washington, d.c. on capitol hill. but i'm just curious, asking from a layperson's perspective, if -- does she have any purview

here where she could ask ivanka or don jr. or trump himself about what took place or their involvement on january 6 on capitol hill if she is trying to prove something to show a pattern of dishonesty or to show that these people are lying? is there any way that this might -- these multiple investigations might cross paths? >> look, i want james to be the attorney general too. like i want her to have the power that merrick garland seems unwilling to use right now. but from where i sit, i think that is probably outside the scope of her investigation. and one of the strengths of her investigation up to this point is that it has been laser focused at least from the outsider's perspective. it seems to be laser focused on the financial crimes. and they are potential crimes here, committed by the trump organization and his family. and i think that as long as she stays on that laser focused track, we could get results. look, these are investigations

that should have happened into the trump org a long time ago. so i applaud it. >> and i ask because it seems like the people holding this president accountable the most are tish james and also that whole election demire case. the national archives did confirm that trump took 15 boxes of documents to mar-a-lago including some marked top secret. trump of course has denied wrongdoing as he is known do. but we're also having this conversation while there are rumors circulating about him running in 2024. will this have any impact on midterms, any impact on the speculation about him running again? and i should say we're way over time, but i do want to give you a chance to answer. >> i'll say very quickly that the hypocrisy of the "new york times" is off the charts if you

look at what they did to hillary clinton and her email scandal where they buried the story of trump eating classified documents and show you how much bias that we have in the media for trump. in terms of punishment, i think one of the problems is that the presidential records act has no teeth. but destroying of classified documents, that is what we got oliver north on. so we should maximally prosecute that. yes, it could be used to prevent him from running for office again. and again, this happened in iran contra, it can happen again if we have prosecutors willing to go to the mattresses to get this guy any way they can. >> well, we will certainly be watching. and we'll happily distracts you from the two urchins you live with. we always appreciate having you. thank you so much. and later in the hour, nba all-star weekend is kicking off in cleveland and chris webber will join me to discuss all things sports. but first, what can democrats take away from early

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how did you categorize the divisions within the latino/hispanic community? >> three basic options. one option is hey, we're like african-americans, latinos are people of color. that's 25%. 60% say we're either standing outside of race and we're just going to get ahead through hard work and you can really understand, they're saying i know there is a big issue here, it won't hold me back. and part of that 60%, you get another group that say we're like european americans, over generations we're joining the mainstream. >> all right. latinos are the largest nonwhite voting bloc in the country of eligible voters, not registered

voters. but they are not a monolith. and we see that in texas where early voting is under way for next month's election. only 30% categorize themselves as people of color in the latest research. so what happens in texas could teach the democrats a lot about the complexity of the latino community as they gear up for this crucial midterm election cycle. joining me now is ian hanley lopez, professor of public law at the university of berkeley, and author of "merge left." ian, welcome to "the cross connection." happy to have you. this interview that you did was very fascinating. one of the things that you say, there is a sect of latinos who want to join and be accepted by the majority, but the majority is changing. by 2044, there will be no majority in this country. so why such the desire do you think to be white adjacent?

>> so tricky question. by 2040, there will be no majority if you continue to count only white nonhispanics as one group and hispanics as another group and african-americans as another. if you lump within the white group those latinos who think -- those hispanics who think that they are white, whites will remain the dominant group indeed will increase in their proportion in this country over the next 40 years. so this question, what is the nature of the white group, what are its boundaries, how do we think about who belongs and who threatens us, and do we think about who belongs and who threatens us primarily in racial terms, in terms of light versus dark? it is an enormously important question to all of us, to our democracy. and also i want to say to the

way in which wealth is distributed in this country. >> well, that speaks to your book, right? the confluence of race and class that happens in this country. and look, one thing that i was talking to one of our producers about, when you hear people say the latino vote, you know, as a black woman i vote the same outrage when i hear the black vote. there are latino voters, black voters, but not one monolith. and particularly in the latino community, there are geopolitics that are involved and people's preferences, political preferences here in the country. what is the message that the democratic party specifically should take away as we see some of these shifts in pockets of the country, some of these people shift towards trump republicans? >> i think that there is actually astoundingly good news here. there is a lot of reasons to worry, but really very good news here. and the good news here is

democrats can say republicans are trying to divide us by race and when they succeed, they laugh all the way to the bank. and our families struggle to get through this economy, to get through this pandemic. but when we reject division and come together, we can actually elect leaders who care for us. it is really good news and it is good news for two reasons. first, it is true, for the last 50 years, republicans have been using race as a wedge issue to divide americans. they thought initially that this was a wedge issue to pull whites out of a new deal coalition that included african-americans. but what we see from 2016 to 2020 is this same wedge issue. the same fear stories about hard working and deserving people threatened by dangerous and undeserving people. that story works within communities of color as well.

so we really are facing a moment of racial divide and conquer being funded and promoted by bully politicians and their billionaire backers. so there is a truth to this message. let me just get this out. this message, we've tested it a variety of times. we see it in action in different political campaigns. and it is incredibly popular not just with different segments of the latino community, this is actually the most popular political message with the african-american community as well. and it has the added benefit of pulling whites away from the lie that people of color are their enemy. and getting them to see that the real enemy we all face are the billionaires who stoke racial division and indeed who govern through racial violence, violence against communities of

color. they are the real enemy we face. >> and thank you for pointing that out. and i think that is why it is so important that we have these conversations on "the cross connection" because we are the rising majority of this country. and collectively there will be a plurality in this country of voters. so when there is in-fighting between the communities, it just doesn't work. >> and i would put it slightly differently. if we say that we're the rising majority, what that communicates to whites is, and you're the impending minority. power shifting away from you. i would say it differently. i would say we are already a multi racial society. can we become a multi racial democracy. and that shift from society to democracy that is not just a word game. you can have a multiracial society in which one race is dominant, that is south africa under apartheid. but when we become a multiracial

democracy in which we take care of each other. >> i agree, but i'm very much saying that power is shifting away from white dominance in this country and i quite frankly think that it is long overdue. we have to share in this power. >> yes, i love that formulation, i love that formulation. power is shifting away from the white dominance. >> and you have a challenge of being too good, my friend, having too many good things to say. so this is a conversation that requires more time that we don't have right now. so promise me that you will come back on the cross connection oig because i find your thoughts very inciteful and love what you have to say. so you will be back. thank you so much. next up, i'm very excited, nba hall of famer chris webber is in the house. look at that andsome face there waiting for us. at that andsome] ♪ and my clothes smell so much fresher than before ♪ ♪ yeah, yeah ♪ waiting for us ac, check my drawers ♪

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kicked off in cleveland and the big game will be on sunday night. there is also the first ever nba hbcu classic pitting howard against morgan state and the league will donate $100,000 to each school. love that. and joining me is hall of famer chris webber. so happy to have you, welcome. you are officially a member of the family now. i want to kick off -- i told you i've become an expert on the fab five, so i'm quite the sports analyst here. but i want to get into some social justice stuff first because you've been in the nba a long time. you are very familiar with the structure of how the nba works. why do you think that the nba does so much better than the nfl when it comes to black ownership, black head coaches, and really just black political power? >> first thanks for having me. i felt like i've been a member of the family because i watch you every weekend as afternoon

as i can. but i think everything starts with the origin, the beginning. so let's go to the first dynasty with the celtics. then you have to talk about red arbach, a place that wasn't very kind in the area of boston. you have to admit that he not only faced that, but he faced it in a different way by making sure after they won all these titles that he reready with aed his best player bill russell with a coaching job to be the first ever african-american coach in the league. and he rewarded him by winning a championship. so i think when you start off in the league and it is intentional to be inclusive, then vestiges of those decisions continue to go throughout the legacy of the league. >> the structures seem very different as well. it is challenging to watch the nfl through the lens of, you know, these very wealthy white men who are overwhelming trump

donors and seeing how that plays out with some of the players. one thing i do know about is fashion and i want to talk about how you changed the fashion of the nba. you really changed the uniforms and changing how the basketball players dress. and i was talking to some of my fellow sports analysts, they were explaining to me that people used to wear different kind of shorts before chris webber came along. what do you think about how the uniforms evolved and do you accept that, yes, you were a part of that change? >> i know that we were a part of that change, myself, juwan howard, ray jackso jalen rose. we were tired of people seeing with the john stockton -- shout out to john stockton -- but with those shorts. really it can from me personally, i used to have jean cutoff shorts and play with them in the park and so i tried to

emulate that. you know, we always bring a different swag or different feel to the game. and a lot of sports is just infusing your own personality within the work ethic and confines of the team. and we were allowed to be five individuals that had five different personalities but came together collectively do some good things on the court. so, yeah, we were young, we wanted to be a part of something new. >> and you brought your swagger and your game to the court. it was a great thing i think. i do want to ask a little bit about this ote league. i find this really fascinating. this is a new professional basketball league for 16 and 19-year-old stars. essentially they are paying these guys six figures and they offer access to high level coaching and et cetera to prepare these young kids for a career in the league. but it bypasses college. essentially they will leap frog over college and could potentially go right to the

pros. curious your thoughts about that. >> i can talk to my brother, reached out to him, and he is -- he is a big wig in one of these companies and he played in college. and we were talking about what does college mean anymore as far as pay, as far as loans. i believe that there has to be a new system. i believe that change comes by trying to be more efficient, we try to make sure that we get the most out of each situation. and for these young men, i don't know if the schools or the leagues are good at all, but what i would say for these young men, that numbers don't change. 3 out of 10,000 will go to the nba. 2 out of 5,000 for women will go to the nba. so if you are in the league, 12 teams, 12 guys, 144 players just in one league, then out of those 144 guys, you know, none may make it. so i would just say it is

incumbent on each person, each parent, each family member to make sure that each kid gets the most out of that individual setting. whether it is at harvard, whether at high school. because if you don't take advantage of all the tools and resources that are there for you, you really won't get any positive. so i don't know if it is the structure or the individual kids saying you know what, whatever structure, i'll get the most out of it. >> we're way over time, but promise me that you'll come back because i have so many questions to ask you. and if you guys ever need another voice on those sideline conversations, i volunteer. i'm available. we'll make it happen. thing you so much chris webber for joining us. and up next, we need to talk about michele tafoya, the former sideline reporter is showing her new true colors in her new gig. stay right there. stay right there

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let's talk sports, politics and privilege. sitting at the intersection of this trio, michele tafoya. after making a living talking to mostly black men making plays on the field, this recently retire

sideline reporter is ready to play for her home team speaking almost exclusively with white people about her views on race. she found her tribe with the terrible tucker carlson and then went to the black face expert e didn't parrot the fox line, stick to sports, and should have given michelle advice because this drop on the view was quite the hot trash. >> do you know you live in the united states, you know that color of skin has been mattering to people for -- >> can't we say that it doesn't? >> we need white people to step up and do that. >> i think they have been doing that since the civil war. >> girl, flag on the play, no wonder sideline susan is against critical race theory, who needs actual knowledge when you can whitewash history with your ill informed, fabricated narrative.

apparently it's crt causing her kids to think skin color matters but not the jim crow era or ongoing civil rights battle or fake war on drugs or black bodies being harmed or black lives being taken. i'm no jamel hill, but if i were, i might be compelled to remind her for someone who doesn't want her kids taught that skin color matters she's ignorant to see that it matters in her own history. the gap in black journalists taking up space on platforms. they'll take a former athlete who played the game, because that's how they like to see us as entertainers, but an to call games, no. sports broadcasting has consistently eliminated men and women, black men and women from top jobs in the industry, folks

like michael smith, and michael holley, chris broussard, and elsie granderson who points out in his opinion piece, that she lives in edina, minnesota, a suburb populated by black people in the 1890s until they were systematically driven out by racial covenants embedded in property deeds, stating that property could be sold only to white people. such a shame that crt isn't currently being taught in any school anywhere because safoya may have learned about the history in her own backyard, but determined to remain blissfully ignorant, she goes on to say things like that. >> if he really really wanted, if the one thing he wanted in this life was to be a starting quarterback in the nfl, he'd be one right now. you know, given that he had the talent, but he made some business decisions.

>> no, babe, the nfl made business decisions to deny a skilled athlete fairness in favor of buying the blackness of a billionaire. obviously, becky, skin color matters, as society has shown us again and again and again. now, if kaepernick made a business decision, safoya is most certainly making a political one, saying nonsensical things of a right wing kendall quails who rejects the idea that america is racist. michelle, trade in your sideline gig for a front line opportunity to join the ranks of the few republican women that the wealthy white men let sit at their table but advice for the sideline swindler, your enemies will come after you the second you misbehave. just ask liz cheney. i'm not saying i spoke to jemele hill about these trivial tafoya takes, but he might have been said hundreds of equally if not more qualified journalists of color never got the opportunity to stand on the sidelines and

interview mostly black players in sport that is nearly 60% african-american and play in a league with zero black owners, but perhaps it was a business decision on tafoya's part to never ask about that. coming up in the next hour, i've got any rock star panel to break down the latest trending topic, plus beyonce's mom, tina knowles lawson joining me to talk, here "the cross connection." talk, h talk, h "the cross connection.w, there'. ♪ things are getting clearer ♪ ♪ i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin, yeah, that's all me ♪ ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin, that's my plan ♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪ achieve clearer skin with skyrizi. 3 out of 4 people achieved

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good morning, and welcome back to "the cross connection," everybody. we have a lot to get to this hour. first let's start with the latest on ukraine where the u.s. is warning of imminent war from russia at a security conference in munich earlier this morning, ukrainian president vladimir zelensky took the un task. >> reporter: we are going to protect our country, armament of 5,000 helmets, we equally appreciate the support but everyone needs to understand that this is not some kind of donation ukraine should be reminding or begging for. this is not just a broad gesture that ukraine should be bowing down for. this is your contribution into the european and international security for which ukraine has

been serving as a shield for eight years now. vice president kamala harris is also in munich, she focused her attention on the kremlin, promising economic sanctions if russia invades. but russia president vladimir putin continues to escalate tensions by overseeing nuclear missile test launches earlier today. and there is growing concern over the more than 190,000 russian forces amassed on the border between the two countries. joining me now is nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker, so happy you're here on set with me this morning. i was on air, as you know, so i did not get to see the q&a with president zelensky. tell us what happened. >> it's great to be with you, tiffany. thank you so much for having me. there was a lot of news that came out of the q&a and the headline that i would point you to is this, we saw this urgent plea from president zelensky, you set it up at the top of your show. in that q&a he said he made that plea to leaders with whom he spoke today, but he also went a step further and said why are

you waiting on sanctions. if you're telling me that war is imminent, that president putin is going to invade almost certainly, why not impose sanctions now. what are you waiting for? and so i think it really underscores the desperation that we are now feeling from this leader whose back is against the wall. you were talking about this earlier today with my colleague, peter alexander. the fact that administration officials had warned him, actually, against leaving the country. there are real concerns that he may be creating an opening for president putin to go in because he's not physically there. he was defiant about that. he said i had my breakfast in ukraine, i will have my dinner in ukraine as well. but this is an incredibly tense situation. >> it is, for the people who don't follow the minutiae of this level of foreign policy with ukraine, and russia, why might we be waiting for the sanctions, does he have a point there? >> it's a great point, and we

have been asking the white house daily as well. look, this is the leverage we have to hold over him. this is what is potentially, they are hoping, maybe urging him to reconsider in those final hours that they're going to hit him with some of the toughest they say economic sanctions that have ever been slapped on any country historically. however, we did learn yesterday that they are holding back on basically kicking russia out of the swift banking system. that would be really the toughest thing that they could impose. that's in part because nato allies worry that the reverberations to the worldwide economic market could be so severe if they take that step. but the u.s. and its nato allies say if russia invades, they are going to slap russia with the toughest sanctions ever. they're hoping that that threat will urge them to reconsider but by all accounts and you heard the president say yesterday, intelligence shows he's made his decision. the one thing, tiffany, that i would look for and that is

giving people some tiny, teeny measure of hope that putin doesn't go in is the fact that there's going to be this meeting between the secretary of state and his russian counter part. that's this wednesday. it's not going to happen if russia invades. does russia wait to move in until that meeting takes place. could they find some common ground to prevent putin from invading at that wednesday meeting. we'll have to see what happens. >> there could be an out, if you provide putin a way to save face and an out, we may be able to avoid this. >> it's an off ramp, and that's what putin has been looking for, you're absolutely right. ment purpose of trying to find that will be front and center at the meeting if that happens. >> we're on ukraine stand by. i know you won't be going far. thank you for putting this in context for you. our thanks to kristen welker, and we turn to the biggest topics of the week including the sentencing of the former police officer kim potter who fatally

shot daunte wright during a traffic stop last april. she was handed a shockingly lenient prison sentence and will be released early in april of 2023 which marks the two-year anniversary of wright's death. the judge said potter deserved a lighter sentence because she was quote extremely remorseful. the sentencing hearing of what wright's family spoke was absolutely gut wrenching. >> she referred to daunte over and over again as the driver, as if killing him wasn't enough to dehumanize him. she never once said his name. she should have, in fact, said, please go save him. how is he doing? is he okay? please help him. she didn't even try, your honor. >> earlier, when you said i didn't look at you during the

trial, i don't believe i had a right to. i didn't even have a right to be in the same room with you. i am so sorry that i hurt you so badly. >> joining me now is my panel, jess morales rocketto, director of moon shot strategies, katie phang, host of a new shot show right here on msnbc. we'll talk about that later in the hour, katie. so excited, it starts on april 9th and christina greer, professor at fordham university and author of "black ethics," katie, i want to kick this off with you. from a legal perspective, do you think the sentencing was fair? >> it's a tough question, tiffany, because the law provided the judge with a discretion to be able to make that downward departure. i will say this, you know, the criminal justice system, it has many components to it but the two primary ones is rehabilitation and the

punishment part of it, the punitive part of it. if you don't have an achieved rehabilitation, then you have repeat offenders. no matter what there's supposed to be a punishment mechanism, because it's supposed to defer future offenders from doing the same exact thing. we entrust police officers with guns, we don't give them to regular people usually to be able to do their jobs. we entrust them to have the training and experience to be able to not do what former officer potter did. keith ellison, the minnesota attorney general, he said accountability is the first step on the road to justice. i don't know about you guys but i feel like this road gets farther and farther and longer and longer in terms of getting to that justice. it is very hard to reconcile how the sentencing guidelines allowed for potter to be sentenced anywhere from seven years to fifteen years, but we got two. so i'm troubled by the consistency. you could have a drug sentence, a conviction and a minimum

mandatory of three years in prison because you had just the right amount of drugs, so two years just doesn't seem to make sense. >> it was quite lenient. i'm going to say something unpopular here, when she said to daunte wright's mother, you said i didn't look at you, i didn't feel i had the right to, my heart broke a little, you know, that's not to say that she doesn't deserve to go to prison and she took this black child's life and black lives matter, but seeing that, you know, it did strike me. however, the job's empathy in this scenario, the amazing cheryl lynn eifel tweeted that she wouldn't help but remember the somali american police officer in minnesota who also made a mistake shooting a white australian tourist, and he was sentenced to 12 1/2 years in prison. so seeing these two justice

systems play out for the rest of america, it is enraging, enraging. your thoughts on the whole situation? >> yeah, tiffany, you know, officer potter is a human being, and she has family, and i understand. she has emotions, and she's allowed to feel how she feels, i think what was so frustrating and infuriating and incredible sad is this isn't about you, officer potter. this is about yet again, another family of a black boy who has lost a member of their community, and so when i'm reminded that you don't need white people to uphold white supremacy, you know, as katie said, there's a punitive aspect of the criminal justice system but we know, we have seen time and time again, it's just not allocated equally. if it worked across the board, find, i would have some investment and faith in it. we've got black women facing five and six years for trying to register to vote. we're not talking about drugs.

we're talking about people trying to be citizens. it raises the questions, can we be equal citizens, even after our death, we have no justice, no peace. you have done story after story, we ask ourselves why is it that african americans have different health outcomes of other americans, regardless of class or geographic locale, we have to ingest and digest these stories wondering if it will be our father, our husband who walks out one day and has a police officer who knows they can shoot someone and barely get two years if prison because she already has 58 days served and i think the judge is setting a precedent where we know police officers across the country can look at this and so many other cases and move to another police department or serve a short period of time and still get a pension and a job elsewhere and it's gut wrenching. >> it is gut wrenching and the same story also in minneapolis this week, the family and friends mourn the death of amir

locke. his funeral was thursday. my colleague al sharpton spoke there. they called far law in his name that would ban no-knock warrants. i want to take a listen to karen wells. >> right now, chief of police, mayor frie, and all those s.w.a.t members, mpd that was in there, when you go to bed at night, i want you to see his face. when you wake up in the morning, i want you to see his face. when you take a shower, i want you to see his face. when you brush your teeth i want you to see his face. because what you all have done to him has already been done to y'all, believe that. >> that is of course amir locke's mother, and jess, i can't imagine, there is no justice in these outcomes, you know, mothers losing their children is something you can't even fathom. there's no justice here. your thoughts on all of this?

>> in both cases, you know, it's incredible the way that mothers have to show so much courage in the face of the most horrible thing that i think you can probably imagine as a mother, your child being senselessly murdered, and you know, i can't help but think of ferguson protester josh williams who has been in correspondence with over the years of time that he's been in prison for engaging in one of our most patriotic action. who is protesting and using our first amendment rights and then i'm looking at all of these police officers and especially frankly the white police officers who are spending less time in prison for murdering people than josh is spending in prison for being a patriot. and it's tough to think about the fact that not only have these mothers and these protesters stood up for their rights as people in this country, for their right to be

alive but that the justice system continues to say that they don't care about their lives. you know, the words black lives matter really mean something. it's not just a slogan, and that's why i think we have to continue to work to make sure that we do defund the police, which is also not just a slogan. it's a rallying cry for justice. and to me, that is the only way that we will get the justice that these mothers and that their children deserve. >> i completely agree, and, you know, our hearts go out to the families because this is something that can devastate generations, quite frankly in these communities. i want to take a hard turn now, and talk about wanda sykes, asmi schumer, and they will be hosting the academy awards, a first for all three women. i'm pretty excited about this. yes, i'm excited there are two black women, i'm a huge amy schumer fan, i love wanda sykes, and regina hall, she's quite

funny. she's hilarious. i think the trio is going to be great. does this let the academy off the hook because there's still the issue of a lack of black women who are nominated for best actress, in the best actress category. what's your take on this? >> i'm so happy that she's finally getting her just due. i think the academy also has o to reckon with me too issues, harboring directors that have been horrific to women in the workplace. it's a small step. it's a significant step in the sense that it's descriptive representation but i would like to see more substantiative representation, all kind of diversity on the boards that votes for these movies and directors and actors who win the awards and take a look at the movie nominated.

there's a disconnect between what the vast majority of americans are watching and enjoying and what the academy deems as worthy. there's a series of conversations that the academy should have moving forward especially when it comes to representation. >> i agree, and remember that year when chris rock hosted and he had stacey dash, i didn't want to see the clueless act be a part of his jokes but i was happy to see him take that stage because he is funny. jess, you i'm sure have opinions about the three women hosting. i find it fascinating. what do you think? >> i'm just excited for the oscar so white joke that wanda sykes is going to make in the opening monologue. it will be great. she'll skewer the academy in the way they deserve and these three together is going to be an interesting mix. they all have a different style of academy but they also are incredibly incisive and fun. that is what we need definitely

in this year of pandemic. i love the oscars, so this is like my super bowl, my olympics, i'm really excited, even as i agree, the academy has a lot of work to do to be truly representative. even just of hollywood, let alone our country. >> and more representation in every category, right, there's not enough api representation, not enough latino representation. not enough indigenous representation, so happy to see this but also still room for improvement. katie, if there were going to be oscars for best new show, i'm going to bet that katie phang's new show on msnbc would be nominated. i'm so thrilled, honestly, katie, i was so thrilled when i heard the news that you are getting a show. you're so fire on camera. your personality leaps off the screen, tell us what we can see on this network every saturday and sunday at 7:00 a.m. >> so it will be original programming. it is the goal to be fresh and innovative, you know, i told somebody i'm a trending topic today on "the cross connection,"

i can now die. i've made it. sally field, you love me, you really do love me. i'm very excited for this. it's an honor. we talk about representation and all kidding aside, i do believe in the concept of be her, see her, to be an asian american women to host original programming on msnbc and on peacock during the week is a dream come true. if it's any message i can share very quickly, i will be 47 this year, so my message is dreams can still come true, so you guys, chase them, don't give up. it's been a long road but i have had a lot of support from all of you, jess and christina, and you tiffany, and countless others and i'm truly grateful, honored to be able to serve. >> i'm honored to call you a colleague, you do not look 47, my friend. shout out to women in our 40s, we're wearing our funeral clothes today because we're killing it. thrilled to see you in this role and i echo your thoughts on

diversity. and a shout out to your role. laser focused to make sure this newsroom looks like america, and every time i see a diverse hire like you it makes my heart sing. welcome my friend, thank you to jess, katie phang, my new colleague and host on saturdays, and christina greer. thank you guys for being here. coming up, don't go away, why billionaire donors are lining the pockets of maga candidates. we're going to talk about that coming up. stay right there. co coming up. stay right there

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okay. what do texas senator ted cancun cruz and the flip-flopping author of hill billy el apology, ohio candidate for senate, j.d. vance have in common. aside from they seemingly bottomless appetites for public humiliation and hypocrisy, one of the biggest donors is a highly educated gay, tech millionaire, but the pay pal cofounder is just one of many uber wealthy donors spending megabucks to make the gop's maga wing the mainstream. joining me to help understand the effect it's having on our national politics, ryan mac, a technology reporter with the "new york times," and lee drutman, political scientist and senior fellow in the political reform program at the new america. thanks, guys, for being here. ryan, i want to start with you. peter thiel is backing 16 candidates, election deniers,

this one billionaire has the power to shape the entire federal government, essentially. what's his ultimate goal here? >> so he's really stepped up his donations this cycle heading into 2022, the midterms, and ultimately what we've been seeing is he's really shaping the face of this kind of maga movement in the country beyond president trump. you have like you mentioned, j.d. vance, you have another of his property jay of his, someone who works for him, blake master in arizona. you have harriet hakeman to unseat liz cheney in the republican primary. he's looking to push the maga agenda heading into 2022 for the house. >> which is interesting, hayman just got that endorsement from house minority leader kevin mccarthy as punishment for liz cheney's participation in the january 6th committee, and i

think peter thiel's world view is quite interesting, honestly, he called south african apartheid a system. just making up a small fraction of the hundreds of millions of dollars that will be pouring into the party, and it makes me question our democracy as congresswoman aoc this week. take a listen to what she said and i'll ask you about it on the other side. >> you have, you know, white nationalist reactionary politics starting to grow into a critical mass, and so what we have is the continued sophistication and takeover of our democratic systems. >> and your concern is we'll look like what nation, any nation in particular? >> i think we will look like ourselves. i think we will return to jim crow. i think that's what we risk. >> you know, it's really interesting because aoc was essentially saying we won't be a

democracy. we'll be looking like a democracy but won't be a democracy. peter thiel has come to believe that freedom and democracy are no longer compatible. your take on this, and is aoc right about wondering if we'll still be a democracy? >> well, it's certainly a threat. i think there are a lot of folks on the far right who have a very different vision of how this country should be governed and who should be governing it, and peter thiel certainly based on his statements, interesting is one word for them, a liberal, authoritarian might be another set of words that could describe him, and in our political system in which private donors can basically decide who they want to see in office and give those candidates millions of dollars so they get a head start, you know, that is a real threat to

our political system. there is a very dangerous to democracy world view that is emerging among some very wealthy people who feel like their vision of democracy or the vision that they see merging of american democracy which is a more multiracial, multiethnic diverse society is a threat to what they see, and that is -- >> yeah, i agree with you. we're seeing how that plays out. you know, ryan one of the interesting things i found in your great reporting there in the "new york times" is peter thiel has company. you know, he's not alone. he's now tied with the billionaire, ken griffin, as the largest individual donor to republican politicians this cycle. what have you uncovered about their interests, though, like why are they pouring money in the campaigns, outside of being

loyalists to trump, do they expect something in return, and another interesting thing is kyrsten sinema gets a lot of funding from gop donors, senator manchin gets funding from gop donors. you have to wonder, is this a quid pro quo? >> i would separate ken griffin from peter thiel. ken griffin donates to a lot of traditional pacs where as peter thiel, most of his donations have gone to two candidates, blake masters and j.d. vance, people that have worked for him, they received $10 million each for their pacs for him seeding their campaigns. but to go back to what he's looking for, really, he's looking to institute a new view in world politics, whether that is the stifling of immigration to ending the fed, to promoting a kind of more nationalist

antiglobalist world view. and that's mainly what he's looking for at this point. >> well, great reporting in the "new york times," we appreciate that, and thank you to you lee drutman, you both have to come back. in a midterm cycle this conversation warrants being continued. the business of legal weed and barriers people of color face when trying to cash in on the exploding cannabis industry. we'll talk about that coming up next. ndustry. we'll talk about that coming up unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours. with downy infusions, let the scent set the mood. feel the difference with downy.

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fortune, activist and entrepreneur, and kaliko castille, the president of the minority cannabis business association. very happy to have you guys here. kaliko, i want to start with you. new jersey, you're not there, that's where ed is, but new jersey will be the latest state to open applications for cannabis retail licenses. what do you see as the biggest obstacle standing in the way of more black and latino families being able to obtain these licenses because they're really having challenges in states everywhere. it's not specific to new jersey in any way. >> sure. thank you so much for having me. it's hard to pick one single thing. i would say overall it's that we're making the barriers too tough for people to get involved. we need to be able to right policies that are able to

disproportionly benefit the communities as well. even though there are things like license caps which make it tougher for black and brown people to get involved because it makes the licenses more expensive, brings more cap room, well capitalized and well connected people into the mix but there's also things new jersey is doing right, priority licensing for micro businesses, setting up micro business licenses. it's hard to pick one single thing that's keeping people out. it's overall a sense that we're not centering equity at the center of the conversations when we're talking about legalization laws. >> particularly given the wealth gap and the financial barriers that it takes for black and brown folks to get in this, which brings me to you, ed, the entrepreneur on the show today, i'm excited to talk to you. cities and states also risk taxing marijuana so high that people will stay on the black market. and so i'm curious if you're able to get a license in new jersey, would you only sell weed legally and are you worried about, you know, the inflation on your cost if you went the

legal route? >> well, i do plan on filing a application next month. i believe as far as staying 100% legal, it's going to be hard because, see, i come from the existing black market, legacy market. we're well supplied. we're thriving. and in order to get into the legal market now, you'd have to slow down. you'd have to take inferior products, limited supplies. to be honest with you, it would actually slow a lot of us down who are thriving right now in the black market. >> so what's the solution here for you? >> well, i think it should be more of a free market system anyway. it's not going that way. it's going the over regulated state system. but if it was a free market, there would be certainly people

that would totally thrive and other people would go out of business, but right now because the way the state is doing it, a lot of guys like me, who, like i said, i'm thriving right now, but, you know, we have to give it a shot. you know, like i can't go complaining about the state, this, that and the other if i never tried. next month i do plan on filing the application, and we'll see where it goes. i mean, i have my skepticism. but i have to at least give the state a shot. >> well, i kind of want to stay in touch with you on this and keep us posted. stay in touch with our producers on the application process. i think you crystallize what this process looks like for a lot of folks. families, you can pass the licenses from generation to generation, so it's uniquely important on who gets granted these licenses and i'll ask you quickly, because we're out of time, but for the process to get this license, black people and

brown people are still overly criminalized when it comes to marijuana. do you notice that a lot of municipalities are taking that into consideration, someone, you know, spent decades in jail over a dime bag, do they get a priority movement to the front of the line when it comes to these licenses. >> in new jersey, there's certainly priority licenses for social equity applicants. in a lot of states they don't allow cannabis conviction to be part of the application. in 36 out of 34, it banned anybody with a felony from being employed in the cannabis business. people who have been disproportionately affected by, to be in the industry as well. >> thank you for working to keep the segment tight. we're over time on the entire show. i wanted to have this conversation with you.

you guys will definitely have to come back. this is an ongoing conversation we'll keep our eyes on here at "the cross connection." researchers say a woman has been cured of hiv. we're going to talk about what led to this ground breaking treatment after the break. you don't want to miss that. stay tuned. you don't want to miss that. you don't want to miss that. stay tuned for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ ♪ before you go there, or fist bump there, or...oh! i can't wait to go there! or reunite there, ♪ ♪ start here. walgreens makes it easy to stay protected wherever you go. schedule your free covid-19 booster today. (vo) america's most reliable network is going ultra!

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major news, this week marked a breakthrough for women with hiv. an american mixed race woman battling leukemia is possibly the third patient cured of the virus. doctors used a stem cell procedure which is deemed to be less invasive and accessible to more people. that could have a big impact. nearly 1.2 million americans have hiv, and it continues to disproportionately affect people of color. joining me now is one of the members of the research team, dr. marshal glesby, associate chief of the infectious disease division of cornell medicine. thank you so much for being here, doctor. this is so fascinating, when i

was reading about this, i was very confused and fascinated at the same time. so tell our viewers what this means exactly. is there now an official cure for hiv or was there something about these three individuals that allowed them to show no detectable signs of the disease? >> i think it's important to note that this is really not a procedure or a way to cure people with hiv in general. the three people to date including our patient that we reported earlier this week are people who needed a stem cell or bone marrow transplant for a specific condition, like leukemia, blood cancer or lymphoma. as part of the procedure, they were transplanted with cells, and later down the road, able to interrupt hiv therapy and maintain control of the virus. >> dr. glesby, in some of the reading it was suggested that racial ethnicity may have had something to do with that, is that accurate?

>> well, i think the angle here, there's really two aspects to it for our particular patient as you noted identified as being mixed race. the cells that are resistant to hiv, natural genetic variation that occurs in probably less than 1% of people, and primarily people of northern european ancestry, when someone needs a transplant like this, they need to be matched with the donor cells, and because of that, it could be, you know, much more difficult for somebody who is not of european ancestry. but because we use umbilical cells, they don't need to be matched as vigorously, and broaden the possibility of having donor cells from umbilical chords that contain this variation. the other important angle is people of color are disproportionately affected by hiv in this country, and the majority of people living with

hiv in the world are is sub saharan africa, and also our patient is noted as a woman, and we know that over half of the people throughout the world with hiv are women, and in this country, about one quarter. and i think this really relates to issues of inclusivity and equity that a woman of color in this case enrolled in the trial was able to access this. >> so i was going to ask why people of color, particularly black people who are over indexed when it comes to new hiv cases but i think you answered that question, so thank you for that. something else i want to shift gears, a significant portion of transmissions are now from straight people, which is interesting. i think this is the first time in history this has happened. any idea why the fda still sets certain regulations on gay men being able to donate blood. i think they have to wait three months if they have had sex with another man, they can't donate blood.

if the new cases are from straight people, why does that rule exist, any thoughts there? >> i think the fda has been revisiting this, and other countries have removed those types of barriers for people who have had sex with men from donating blood, blood products, and part of it is we really have excellent tests that are very sensitive at detecting traces of hiv in the bloodstream, so there really shouldn't be any reason in my mind to exclude people based on those types of behaviors. >> we'll definitely keep our eye on this development, i appreciate you have made it very digestible for our viewers. i appreciate that, dr. glesby, and anytime we have updates, we would love to have you back "the cross connection." >> my pleasure. >>. up next for our viewers at home, beyonce's mom, the executive producer, look at that beautiful face, thank you ms. tina for being here. she's going to be with us to talk about her powerful new docuseries you don't want to miss. beautiful mama tina, coming up

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i've always felt the perception of who we are is filtered through a lens of fear. >> still it this day, black men are not able to just walk down the street without someone assuming that they don't belong there. >> stereotypes that have been put on black men takes place in the newspaper headlines. it takes place on the television. and i think it's played a major role in the bias against black men. it's an atomic bomb. >> it's every day for us. every single day. >> there are so many damaging myths out there about black men, but executive producers terrell thomas, and tina knowles lawson are deconstructing these harmful misconceptions in their new dock -- docuseries by my friend tamika mallory, and the show is

changing the narrative and celebrating the strength and resilience of black men. joining me now are the executive producers of the profiled black man, tina knowles lawson, who's not defined by anybody she's related to but her own poise and beauty and intelligence, and terrell thomas. what made you want to make a timely body of work, you have been on the show i'm honored to say, and you have so much -- that you're doing with the different shows and digital platforms that you're doing. you have always been involved in the community and a very conscious minded woman. what made you want to get involved in this? >> well, terrell thomas, who's my mentee, we've had many long conversations about the myths

and stereotypes, and he was looking for something positive on tv to reinforce after documentaries that were pretty negative, and he said, you know, i can't find anything. if you don't see it in the words of my husband richard lawson, create it. and so he did. he went back and wrote some things and came back and we talked about it, and we hashed it out, and we hooked up with a production company, a smith, and here we are. and i'm really excited about this project. >> i'm excited to talk to you about it, and terrell, itch to say, you worked with a very good friend of mine, someone i worked with for a long time, frank williams on this project. i know it's going to be fire. i can't wait to watch it. something interesting about the documentary, you make a point to say sometimes society would have you believe we don't rock with your queens like that. i appreciate that, and you making that point. the third installment is black men value black women, what will we see in that series?

>> yeah, we'll see the truth in that series. i think, you know, there are a lot of myths around the black community, particularly when it comes to the black family. a lot of the things that that are barriers are systematic, so we really dive into the stereotype. we dive into where they came from. we show so much love to black woman, which none of us would be here without. right? and so you'll see the love, you'll see the truth, you'll see it backed with research, and you'll see real examples of real black men who love and value black women. >> i'm very much looking forward to that episode. i want to play a clip of you, ms. lawson talking to your grandson about what to do during a police stop. i'm sorry, this is not a clip. this is a full screen. apologies and you're talking about the fact that you have two black grandsons, one is 17, who we've seen grow up, jewels, he's

17. and you're saying it's so difficult to have hard conversations with him. and you tell him if you're stopped by the police, put your hand on the steering wheel, don't make sudden moves. this is a conversation every black mother and grandmother has had to have. i'm curious how receptive he is to that because kids are so innocent, and the first time you realize there's a difference between me and my counter parts, how receptive was your grandson getting that message? >> my grandson was very receptive because he has been, i think, schooled from a very young age, which is unfortunate because, i mean, i hate having to have that conversation with him, but it's not the first time. it's been many. but now he's of the age to drive, and so the fear becomes greater the older he gets, and so i just felt like it was necessary to have the conversation, he's very receptive and understands. >> that's good to hear. i have brothers, uncle and

fathers, it feels like osmosis, it's our birthright, we at some point understand there's a difference how we move in the world. trell, as a black man, what is the one thing you want people to take away from this. i find often when people are doing documentaries about black folks, we understand black men, what is the one thing you want people from outside the diaspora to learn about black men in this series? >> absolutely. well, first and foremost, i want people to learn the truth. i would be -- we can't say this docuseries is a solution. it is, though, a conversation starter. it is a place where we could bring people to the table and have real conversations about who black men really are outside of what people have been told, what they might have seen on the news or on tv or, you know, any myths they might have come no contact with. we want to help dispel those, and bring people to the table to have a real conversation. >> i love that, having a real

conversation. and if you're comfortable sharing something my mother talked about. we talked about black men and the role of black men in the world, in my life, how to carry myself and maneuver around black men. i'm curious what advice you gave to your daughters as you were raising them so wonderfully, their relationships with black men, not romantically but their relationships in general, how they would engage black men. >> obviously their father is a black man and their uncles and they have been surrounded by black men, and so, you know it was a conscious effort again to explain to them that black men have a way harder time in life because they're judged and there are stereotypes and they cannot buy into that, they need to celebrate black men. even with my granddaughters i have that conversation as well because i think it's really important because they're looking at the media. they're looking at all of these negative things on the news, i

mean, even though you try to shield them from them, they still hear them, and just explain to them that this is not the truth, that black men are not dangerous. black men are not -- that people from all ethnicities have. you have people that are these things. it's not because of the color of their skin. >> absolutely. i thank you so much, ms. tina knowles lawson, for being here, you're a fashion icon, executive producer. you have multiple tentacles in multiple businesses, a woman who wears many hats and as another woman who aspires to wear as many of those halts, i appreciate your presence here today. and trell thomas, you have a great mentor, and i'll be checking out this documentary. be sure for you folks at home to check it out as well. catch "profile the black man" with episodes every saturday through march 5th.

thank you for being here. before we go, today was the last day for a very special member of the "the cross connection" team, and i want to drag her out. this is the lovely emily. she keeps me together, does amazing research and has traveled with me whiff done remote shows, and she's so bright and amazing. and i just think she's going to be my boss one day, so i'm luckily we've had a great relationship working together. so when you're hiring one day, remember our good times, our good times that we've hired and good luck. she's not going far. she's going to stay right here within the msnbc family and will be shifting down a bit. so our thanks to emily. and coming up tomorrow on the sunday show, my colleague jonathan capehart will have a one on one with gavin newsom, check it out tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. on msnbc. and we'll be right back. out tot 10:00 a.m. on msnbc. and we'll be right back.

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if you can't lay your hand flat on the table, talk to a hand specialist. but what if i don't want surgery? well, then you should find a hand specialist certified to offer nonsurgical treatments. what's the next step? visit findahandspecialist.com today to get started. thank you, everybody for watching "the cross connection," i'll be back next saturday at 10:00 a.m. eastern. you don't want to go anywhere, my friend alex wilt has the latest. i have a pressing question for you. i understand today is a very very very important day, and we need to get to why that is right now. >> it's all about on the heels of your great conversation with tina knowles lawson how we continue to learn from our mothers no matter how old we are. i'm paying homage, thanks to you bringing this up, to my mom. it is her birthday today, she's beautiful. i admire